Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

rattlenbang
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Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:51 pm

After a great deal of teeth gnashing and bashed knuckles I managed to replace the failed CVT on my 2007 Freestyle. But to make what was a bad situation even more crummy, It didn't fix the problem but made things worse. I now have a couple of dash lights I didn't have before (I'll worry about that later) but whereas the old tranny went into gear with a satisfying thunk but slipped badly, this new used one does absolutely nothing. Zilch. You can try forward and reverse and it's like it's in neutral. Nothing happens. The rpms drop slightly (possibly loaded down by the tranny pump) but there's absolutely no engagement. I've double checked the tranny electrical plug, double checked fluid level (new fluid) and of course the shift cable is connected (it does go into park) but nothing. I checked at the dealer to see if it needs to be flashed, and they said they just pop in rebuilt ones and off it goes.
The tranny came from a wrecker quite a distance away, and he swears they drove the vehicle in his yard and the tranny worked fine. So what can cause a tranny to go completely dead like this? Of course I get the wrench symbol and generic transmission error but I don't have a scanner that reads specific tranny codes.


rattlenbang
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:58 am

Oops - I just recalled as I was falling asleep, or didn't recall -installing the flex plate bolts. We had a small hassle getting the tranny in as we didn't get the torque converter pushed all the way back intro the tranny bellhousing - it needed to go back one more step, about 1/2" worth and it was too proud. The tranny was almost all the way bolted to the block but the TC was pressing against the flex plate. By rocking and spinning it we were able to get it seated all the way. After all that extra mucking about, where we thought we might have to repull it to seat the TC properly, we were relieved that it popped in, and with all the self congratulation I think we forgot the flex plate bolts. At least I don't recall lining up the TC with the flex plate to install the bolts at all. I'll check today but I'd be willing to lay money that's what happened, and it sure would explain the no go transmission!

rattlenbang
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:55 pm

Sadly, that wasn't it. I had infact installd it correctly. Unlike some makes the TC has studs that have to be aligned in the flex plate before you can even fully bolt on the tranny, and I had forgotten that. But I have ordered in a deep analytic scanner that should show me full tranny codes and that should let me know what's going on. But unless there's suddenly a communication problem between the PC module and the tranny, ten to one this replacement tranny is no good and I'll have to replace it yet again. And how much you want to bet the wrecker who sold it to me is going to balk at a refund.

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jas88
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by jas88 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:24 am

To avoid this hassle, I recommend you buy an entire parts car from Copart that you can make sure goes into gear before you buy it. Also check out the 6-speed swap thread (long). I have done this swap with a 500 I bought from Copart for about $600 all in. I am doing another one soon when I can get another parts car for my price.

How much did you pay for the used CVT?
2006 SE Silver w/Slate cloth

rattlenbang
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:40 am

I paid $1000 plus shipping. Most wreckers want $1500.00. The problem is these vehicles and parts are rare up here on Vancouver Island, or in BC for that matter. There were only 3 transmissions available in the entire province, and I bought one.

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Splicer
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by Splicer » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:38 pm

I just bought a transaxle for my garden tractor off eBay. Was the only one I could find for sale in the country (used anyway). $1075 shipped. If you got a CVT for $1000 in working order, you made out like a bandit in my opinion.
2007 Freestyle Limited FWD 290,000+ miles 8)
2004 Escape XLT FWD 225,000+ :)
2006 Escape Hybrid AWD 117,000+ :mrgreen:

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jas88
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by jas88 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:40 pm

Except it doesn't work.
2006 SE Silver w/Slate cloth

rattlenbang
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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:47 pm

But I don't know if it's something I did, that's the problem. The wrecker said they drove the car in the yard and it worked. Of course something could bugger up in shipping. Or I screwed up something, but don't see how, given that although its a complicated re and re, its hard to see what I could have done wrong that would render the tranny completely dead. The only thing we did to the tranny before replacing it was install a new high pressure filter.

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:40 pm

So I got my scan tool today and slapped it on the tranny. These are the codes I get.

U0001 - outgoing message no response
P0715 speed sensor circuit malfunction
P0811 clutch slippage
PO868 low pressure

PCC 115 psi
PCB 58 PSI
PCA 376 PSI
Shift solenoid D 289 PSI
Shift solenoid E 0 PSI

Transmission PCC 1 PSI
Transmission PCA 0 PSI


I'm not sure what the acronyms PCC and PCA mean. The clutch slippage makes sense given the low pressure fault. I went over the install and was overjoyed to discover a twist kink in the tranny cooler line, but fixing it didn't make any difference. So if the wrecker wasn't lying to me and sold me an untested tranny, what could cause this fault to suddenly appear?

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by xvert » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:56 am

let's fantasize
rattlenbang wrote: PCC 115 psi
PCB 58 PSI
PCA 376 PSI
Shift solenoid D 289 PSI
Shift solenoid E 0 PSI
These are the calculated values. TCM is OK, but it is in limp mode.
rattlebang wrote: Transmission PCC 1 PSI
Transmission PCA 0 PSI
These are the measured values ​​of the pressure sensors. (0psi !) This could mean (in this case):
- the high-pressure filter is completely destroyed and its remnants clogged transmission cooler (or your cooler was clogged)
- while installation time the torque converter left its place :roll: and now does not rotate the oil pump.
- CVT had been problems with pressure (oil pump, pan filter) before you bought it
P0715 speed sensor circuit malfunction P0811 clutch slippage
It is secondary codes.
U0001 - outgoing message no response
I think you can ignore it
.I'm not sure what the acronyms PCC and PCA mean
There are two analog pressure sensors. PCA is main pressure. PCC is secondary pulley pressure.

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:28 am

The high pressure filter was clean as a whistle, but we replaced it anyway. A clogged tranny cooler can cause this?
So this means zero oil pressure?

If the pan filter worked loose in shipment could it cause this?

We didn't know about the pump key when we installed the thing - we thought it was like any other torque converter that you just have to get it seated by rotating it. But here's the thing - wouldn't it be impossible to install the transmission? If the TC wasn't lined up with the pump, it would be sticking out, right? There was no pressure against the flex plate when the transmisson was bolted in place and we had no problem rotating it to line up the flex plate bolts.

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Well hell. After way too much work and teeth gnashing I *think* I found the problem. Turns out the wrecker pulled the pan (Because they stripped the drain plug) and for some unknown reason tossed the filter.
I installed a new filter and now I show 117kpa instead of zero oil pressure. Still not enough though, but I'm short a couple of litres of fluid and parked on a slope. The level is just below the lower hole (engine off). Someone tell me that is enough to give low pressure?

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by xvert » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:14 pm

We didn't know about the pump key when we installed the thing - we thought it was like any other torque converter that you just have to get it seated by rotating it. But here's the thing - wouldn't it be impossible to install the transmission? If the TC wasn't lined up with the pump, it would be sticking out, right? There was no pressure against the flex plate when the transmisson was bolted in place and we had no problem rotating it to line up the flex plate bolts.
You are absolutely right. But I'm not a mechanic, so when I repair something myself, my method is "check everything you touch twice"
117kpa instead of zero oil pressure
PSI or kPa? Filter is OEM?
The high pressure filter was clean as a whistle...
Turns out the wrecker pulled the pan (Because they stripped the drain plug) and for some unknown reason tossed the filter.
This is suspicious. The seller has already tried to solve some problem with the CVT

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:31 am

When we ordered the thing they told me their policy is to replace the filter on every outgoing transmission. But it came with a note saying the filter hadn't been replaced. Likely they couldn't get one in town for a few days so they just sent it along (it came from a small town wrecker) as it already had been delayed. But they didn't mention they pulled the filter and threw it away!

Yup, 117 KPa.

I hope that with the tranny low by two or three litres (if its below the lower hole in the dipstick at rest, with engine running it probably doesn't even read) it's not surprising that pressure would be low. I'll top it up on Tuesday when some more fluid comes in, but if that doesn't fix it I'll be very p*ssed at the wrecker for pulling that filter without telling me.

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Re: Heartbreaking hassle -CVT tranny problems after swap

Post by rattlenbang » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:02 pm

That was it. It needed another 3 litres. Then the horrible little wrench light when out and it went into gear. What a huge relief. Now for the irritants: ever since I did the tranny swap I've gotten a check engine light. Two issues: one is incorrect pressure in the intake manifold, and the other is incorrect EGR input. I've had a look at the intake parts we removed and everything seems put back the way it should be. Car runs fine. Are these separate issues or related? I'm not familiar with the EGR system on this car. WHat could we have buggered up with a tranny swap to give this light? We lifted it out from the top so a lot of things were disconnected, including the throttle body.

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