08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

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tonytaylor85
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08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by tonytaylor85 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:13 am

I'd suspected for the last year that my AWD wasn't performing well. PTU and rear diff are fine. I found how to lock the ATC clutch in IDS and it recommends turning tight circles and felling for torque bind. I have a 93 Ranger 4x4 so I'm familiar with that sensation lol. So the TRex does not exhibit any torque bind. I see voltage out of the 4x4 module, and the coil ohms out good. I'm guessing the clutches in the ATC/ITCC bolted to the rear diff input are kaput. I'm going to replace it, I see them for $250 on ebay.

My question(s):
Could a 2010-2013 Taurus RDU work in this application? Is the 2010 upgraded? I know they're all 2.77 (except SHO) fortunately. Maybe the current/torque curve is tuned differently? Just wondering if anyone has tried it or knows a reason it won't work. I'm afraid a junkyard unit may already be burned up or close to it.


RVAFreestyle
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by RVAFreestyle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:53 pm

I will admit I haven't been under a late model Taurus. But unless it uses the same Volvo P2 platform as the FS, Trex, Volvo V70/S60/V70xc then it's doubtful
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RVAFreestyle
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by RVAFreestyle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:55 pm

Why do you suspect the Haldex or rear different are bad? Most common failures are Haldex temp sensor, Haldex Control unit, or fluid loss in the rear
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mikeincanada
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by mikeincanada » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:07 am

This post might put you on the right path .....

viewtopic.php?t=3911&start=75#p43150

Hope it helps.

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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by mikeincanada » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:12 am


tonytaylor85
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by tonytaylor85 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:22 pm

Thanks RVA. They're not identical and probably only share brake pads but the timeline fits. And if you've ever been inside a '11+ explorer it's obvious. Of course the roof is taller. It's an evolutionary thing. I think the Taurus stayed on D3??
The TRex swapped from the Haldex system in the FS to one built by JTEKT. Its electro-magnetic/mechanical instead of hydraulic for it's clutch actuation. No temp sensor or pump, the module infers the temp based on wheel speed sensors and what torque it's commanding.

I think it's bad because I can command 100% lock and i get virtually no torque to the rear wheels. I followed the factory service manual 'Pinpoint Test" to diagnose. PTU works fine and rear diff is good too.

I'm getting ~6V @ 100%, the coil ohms out to 2.3, giving me roughly 3A, the design current for the coil based on the only PDF about the system I've seen. With the engine shut off, I can hear the coil sing at 1kHz, the PWM carrier frequency. With all 4 wheels jacked up, I can apply the E-brake and easily stop the rear wheels and the fronts never lose speed. And the coupling doesn't get hot at all doing this.

Thanks, MIke. I've been through those threads and feel like I know the system pretty well. The two units look extremely similar, don't they? And I see there is a rebuild kit available for some of the newer ones.

08-09 Taurus X vs. 2010+ Taurus/2011+ Explorer

I got an 08 Taurus unit with 53k on it for $200 shipped. I'm going to disassemble and diagnose my old one so maybe future generations can keep their wives happy in the snow.

RVAFreestyle
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by RVAFreestyle » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:43 pm

Do you have ever a scope to view waveform patterns on the PWM to see if there is signal degradation?

As a shop foreman I once had one of my lackies chasing a long crank on a then new P2 Xc90 throwing every part in the book at it because the "pinouts" and. Breakout box readings all looked good. Hooked it up to a Vantage Pro and adjusted the scale for appreciate waveform pattern viewing. I could see the CKS loosing a good waveform.

By monitoring the CMP signal and overlaying the two signal patterns on the scope you could see the 1:4 ratio issue on the CKS. Lead me to confirm that the hack across the way three parts and a half ass diagnosis.... the flex plate shadow wheel had a bur of weld Slag on it from the factory.
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tonytaylor85
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by tonytaylor85 » Sat May 06, 2017 12:55 pm

I have a scope at work. I gutted my old one. Something had been bouncing around between the housing and main drum. The clutches looked great to me. I'd kinda hoped they'd be shot. Anyone want to see the guts?!?

https://youtu.be/8bByQI6AQ78

tonytaylor85
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Re: 08/09 ITCC ATC vs. 10-13

Post by tonytaylor85 » Sun May 07, 2017 4:03 pm

New ATC binds like it should when I lock it in Forscan and make tight circles. Launches like a rocket when I gun it on a dirt road. If I had to do it again, I'd probably leave the diff and just change the coupler. Only reason not to is sealing the two cases, which should be simpler than dropping the subframe.

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