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No crank, no start problem

okcstyle
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No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:53 pm

I just bought a 05 freestyle fwd v6. It looks like a new car, especially the interior. It will not crank with the key. No power to the starter relay(engine compartment) from the key, but starter relay has constant power. Starter will turn over engine when relay is jumped but engine will not start, doesn't even try (yes, key in run position). Radio fuse inside under drivers dash keeps blowing the second you put a new one in. All dash lights work properly. Pats system seems to be working properly except remote does not work with new battery. Door key pad works properly using code on the smart junction box. When you turn the key to start, all lights go off normal for max power to starter but nothing else. Security light blinking normal. Neutral switch checked, no issues. Also the odometer is showing all dashes, no mileage (---------), both on mileage and trip meter. Oil change % shows normal. All lights work normal. Traction control button next to hazard button stays lit. Dealer says it either needs a new computer or maybe computer needs flashed. Any way to check to be positive? Dealer says over $1200 for new computer & $375 for reflash. I searched online but no luck finding the exact part number for the computer. Most I find are 4wd and mine is a 2wd. Computer is 6F9T-14B476-DA. I found computer already flashed with keys for $260 online but the part number doesn't match. Will they interchange? Any help is appreciated. I really need to get this thing running.

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CARR142
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by CARR142 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:09 pm


knowitall
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by knowitall » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:15 am

Whatever you do don't start throwing money at it because stealerships will gladly take it. :shock:

Wheelman
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by Wheelman » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:08 pm

Check your full ISO relay #56 Starter motor solenoid at your power distribution box. Also #55 Full ISO relay PCM relay, PDB fuses 40 and 41.

okcstyle
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:38 pm

All fuses are good except the radio fuse which blows as soon as you put a new one in. The dealership said the radio fuse also doubles as the obd2 scanner fuse which didn't make sense to me because the scanner has power when you plug it in. I'm leaning towards the computer needs replaced because even if something was wrong (bad ground or even needing re-flashed), it usually would show current mileage, unless it had a catastrophic failure. I have traced wire after wire and have found no ground issues or shorts. I need to know if I can buy a salvage yard computer and just have it re-programed to work with the pats and if the number has to be identical to the one in the car. I cannot find one that is a perfect match as far as the computer number. I found computers at the salvage yards between $60-$100 and the dealer said it would be around $375 for re-flash. So that sounds like the best option at this point.

Wheelman
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by Wheelman » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Are you sure your #41 15A mini fuse is good? Replace it anyway to make sure. This is found in the power distribution box.

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jas88
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by jas88 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:46 am

Agree with Wheelman. See here for more:

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/v ... f=1&t=1965
2006 SE Silver w/Slate cloth

okcstyle
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:25 pm

I did find that the #41 fuse was blowing. Its funny that I checked them all several times and they were all good, then all the sudden it started blowing. I towed it to the dealer to have it scanned, and what do you know, I learned nothing. The dealer kept it all last week and I picked it up this morning and all they could tell me is it has a electrical problem. They charged me $99.95 for diagnosis and tried to charge me $65 for some relays, but I refused to pay for the relays since I just took it there to get scanned. I love Fords, but have never taken one in to get worked on because I've been a mechanic for over 20 years, just don't have the "high tech computer" the dealer should have. I'm troubled to find out that the dealer couldn't tell me anymore than I already knew and got screwed out of a hundred bucks. This is troublesome also: The dealer told me they disconnected the stereo to keep the fuse from blowing. I checked it when I towed it back home and they didn't put the fuse back in and they did not disconnect the stereo. I pulled the stereo myself and had to disconnect it, then the stereo fuse stopped blowing. Another funny thing is that the #41 is not blowing now but still won't crank, I've checked it several times and changed it a few times to make sure, but still not blowing. I did check the #F14 (starter relay coil, PCM)fuse and it has no power until you turn the key to start, then it gets power. I'm assuming that the #56 relay should be getting power if the #F14 has power with the key at start, but it is not getting power to switch the #56 relay. And yes, the #56 has constant power at the correct terminal. Also I don't hear the fuel pump priming. I thought it was weird that the dealer disconnected the ABS motor harness. I had to reconnect it when I seen it was disconnected. I don't know if they were assuming that they were going to be working on it, and didn't put it back, or if the guy just forgot, or if it was a charge me money to fix an issue deal. I'm about ready to replace the front harness, smart box, gauge cluster, and stereo, just to get this thing running. Of course the dealer threw in that it may be the gem box, which I thought was the smart junction box. Maybe it has a gem, or maybe the guy at the service dept didn't know what he was talking about. Any thoughts?

Wheelman
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by Wheelman » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:33 pm

Did you check the wires on the starter itself and if those are good and tight, it may be your starter. I would have it removed and checked. That may be what causes you fuse to blow. As for your dealer, he should be charging you nothing if he cannot find the problem. Some dealer, is it a Ford dealer?

okcstyle
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:14 pm

The starter is fine, like I said earlier, you can jump the starter solenoid relay and it cranks the engine over, without starting. The wires are tight, no corrosion. Yes it was a Ford dealer. If the ignition was hot, it would start when I jumped the relay(and key on). So something isn't working correctly in the computer, smart box, gauge cluster, etc.

Wheelman
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by Wheelman » Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:18 pm

I still think a fuse or circuit breaker is responsible for your problem. This is a complicated intertwined system with many components. Try Fi4 7.5 starter relay coil, PCM and F18 10A PCM both in cabin.#34 30A ignition switch to SJB in Power Distribution Box.If none of these solve there are still others. Good Luck.

okcstyle
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Wed Nov 05, 2014 12:10 am

Look, I know you guys are trying to help, but really, you don't think I've checked the fuses and relays? I have changed everyone out and replaced several of the same ones doing trial and error. The F14 relay is not bad, it is not getting power to switch when the key is turned. Let me try to explain in a different way. A relay is a switch, it normally has constant power on one lead, ground on another, and when power is given to the 3rd lead, the fourth connects the main power to the what its suppose to be supplying. When I pull the relay out and test the wiring directly(note-test the wiring, not the relay), the normally hot wire is hot and one is grounded, the one that is suppose to get power to make the relay switch is not getting power at all(when you turn the key to start), which means that there is a break between the key and the engine compartment fuse/relay box. My last post states: "I did check the #F14 (starter relay coil, PCM)fuse and it has no power until you turn the key to start, then it gets power, to both sides. The #56 relay should be getting power if the #F14 has power with the key at start, but it is not getting power to switch the #56 relay."
If the F14 fuse has power when you turn the key, that means the key is switching power, and that the key(ignition switch) is doing its job. That also means that the power is either not making it thru the Smart Junction Box and not being sent to the #56 starter relay, or the wiring is bad between the Smart Box and the engine compartment power distribution box. If the #34 was blown, the key would not work at all, and would not give power to the F14 fuse. I pulled an Alldata diagram and yes, very intense on wiring.
None of this explains why the odometer shows all dashes(---------). Just assuming that the dash went bad, since the dealer claimed they couldn't check it. Instead of paying the dealer to reprogram the dash(dealer wants $250), I am going to spend $40 for a matching salvage yard dash that I found(and guaranteed to work by the salvage yard) and have a mobile programmer program the dash for $40 for a total of $80.
Why would I take the car to the dealer to get scanned and be told what I already knew. I needed them to use the high tech computer to pin point the item not working correctly. I wish my Solus (snap-on scanner for those that don't know) didn't quit on me or it would've did what I needed.

newguy232
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by newguy232 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:07 pm

did you ever get your FS running? did you find what was wrong with it? I'm having close to the same problem...and I've run out of ideas, without taking it to the dealership...any hints or tips would be appreciated!!!

Please contact me here ( http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/v ... f=1&t=7436 )
:shock:

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jas88
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by jas88 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:00 pm

It used to be that, if you took your car to the dealer, they would charge you more than the gas station down the street, but you would get your car fixed right. That is no longer the case. The dealers started about 10 or so years ago robbing the parts and service depts. so they could compete on price on new cars. This means they now pay roughly per hour what I was getting in 1984. Therefore, their "technicians" are, for the most part, glorified grease monkeys. This is not always true, as I say, there are still some old-timers that know their stuff and stay because they are loyal to the brand, or to the dealer, or both. But mostly, the younger guys don't know JS because the pay is so low.
2006 SE Silver w/Slate cloth

okcstyle
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Re: No crank, no start problem

Post by okcstyle » Wed May 04, 2016 9:51 am

I should have listened to knowitall on this one. 3 dealers that have mechanics that can't figure out the problem. Was working on this car over a year. The first two dealers were oil change shops. Called Ford and they told me who their electrical specialist dealer in my area was. That dealer after the car being there almost 4 months called me and said to come get it, that their mechanic didn't want to work on it any more. The service advisor told me they didn't have any mechanics with enough years(experience) to be able to diagnose or figure out the problem and that they wouldn't get paid for all the hours it would take. I told the guy I shouldn't have to pay to allow their mechanic to get trained on my vehicle, that their guy should already be trained. Funny how every mechanic in that dealership looked to be a full 20 yrs old. They tried to charge me 3 hours diagnose fee. I asked the guy why they had it 4 months if they only spent 3 hours on it, and also asked what was new I didn't already know. No new info so I refused to pay the diagnose charge. I actually sat there and talked to the advisor for about 30 min, and the way he acted when I left was if I had taught him years of knowledge and he asked me if I needed a job. I told him they can't afford me, and he should be paying me for my lessons. The only reason I brought it to the dealer is to use their computer to find the issue. In my mind, my Solus wasn't capable of doing the things the dealer computer should be able to do. Which I believe the dealer computer can, but no one there knew how to use it. I called them back a week later and told the manager that I wasn't paying for a new technician that doesn't know what they are doing. To make a long story short, I'm parting out the first Freestyle and bought a second one that doesn't have electrical issues. I bought the 2nd car from the insurance auction and it was wrecked on the front so I took the 1st car and pulled the parts off to fix it. Now I have a cheap 2nd car and its runs like a charm.

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