Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

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dmg
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Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:42 pm

Hi all,

I recently had my wheels aligned. The shop that performed the alignment informed me that it cannot adjust the camber on my rear wheels any further. Currently, the camber is -1.1 on both rear wheels. I understand this value is just at the extreme edge of being within spec (-0.35 +/- 0.75).

The shop recommended that I replace the upper control arms to allow the camber to be adjusted within spec on the rear wheels. Then, the shop quoted me a ridiculously high price for this work. But, maybe the price isn't high, given what is involved. I looked at the service manual (section 204-02), which says the first step for replacing the upper arms is to remove the rear subframe. That is a lot of work to get at a basic part.

I guess replacing the upper control arm would provide a solution to correct excessive negative camber that cannot be adjusted further. However, I am not sure entirely convinced this is the correct or only solution, at least not without some disinterested expert advice.

The car steers and drives fine. I haven't really noticed any excessive inside tire wear. So, I am not sure what to do. It is a bit worrisome that the camber can't be adjusted closer to within spec. However, there are no other symptoms that would cause me to want to replace the upper arms, if in fact, this work actually is necessary.

Has anyone else had to replace the upper control arms? To fix issues with camber?

Thanks,

Martin


pwschuh
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by pwschuh » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:50 am

Get a second opinion?
2008 TX Limited
Silver Birch Metallic/Black leather
WeatherTech floormats all rows
Bought used on 17 Nov 10 with 20,000 miles

dmg
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:00 am

Yep. That is what I plan to do. First stop, however, is this forum to see if others have had a similar experience. It is always better to go into a repair shop armed with knowledge.

I have been doing some research on my own and wonder whether it would not be easier and cheaper to install a rear camber adjustment kit, such as the MOOG K100097 (http://bit.ly/28ITPZp). But, I can't find any information on what is required to make the modification with the kit, whether, for example, it would still be necessary to first detach the subframe. I have sent MOOG an email asking for installation information and will go to another shop in the near future for a second opinion.

In any event, I will keep people posted if I find out anything useful on my own.

madmatt2024
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by madmatt2024 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:20 pm

As a mechanic, if your tires are wearing fine then don't worry about it. While excessive camber can cause tire wear excessive toe is far worse. If you want to pursue it further then the question "what is causing it to be borderline out of spec in the first place?" needs to be asked. Are all of the bushings tight, are the springs sagging or broken, is something bent, etc.

dmg
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Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:34 am

Here is some follow up information.

The shop manager called me to bring the vehicle in so they could take another look at it. They put my vehicle on the hoist where I could take a look at the underside of the car. It is complicated under there - it certainly looks like there is no way to adjust the camber without changing the upper control arms. And, even then, I doubt this work would really fix the camber - the arms do not appear to be in anything other that good shape.

Here's the interesting bit: they put the alignment measurement tools on the rear wheels. Then they put a lift under my (installed) hitch and raised the rear body of the car slightly. I had a clear view of the alignment readings and could see the alignment readings changing to within spec rapidly. (It was a very interesting demonstration. Wish I had had the wherewithal to take a video of the experiment.)

This suggests to me that possibly the rear springs and shocks need replacing. I had the front ones done last year, so maybe it is time for the rear springs and shocks. Seems a bit soon, though: approx. 150,000 kms on the car (close to 93,000 miles).

pwschuh
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Location: Mid-Atlantic

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by pwschuh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:55 am

Bumping this thread to see if others have had any rear camber issues.

I have the opposite problem from "dmg." My T-Rex has too much rear positive camber. Outside edges of my rear tires are wearing prematurely.

Is there, in fact, a factory camber adjustment for the rear wheels, or is the rear camber geometry fixed?

Thanks.
2008 TX Limited
Silver Birch Metallic/Black leather
WeatherTech floormats all rows
Bought used on 17 Nov 10 with 20,000 miles

madmatt2024
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by madmatt2024 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:03 am

I've NEVER done an alignment on a vehicle that had positive rear camber issues. The only way that you would have that issue is if either the springs are wrong or the vehicle was in a crash. Most likely its a toe problem causing your tire wear issue as camber usually has to be pretty extreme to cause tire wear issues.

My mother's 08 has adjustable camber and toe in the rear but I understand the rear suspension is different between the FWD and AWD models and hers is FWD.

pwschuh
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by pwschuh » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:49 am

My 08 is FWD as well. Springs are factory and it has never had any accident damage in the rear. The unusual wear on the rear tires did not start until it reached about 120,000 miles on the odometer. Now that I know there are adjustments back there, I'll have them checked. Thanks.
2008 TX Limited
Silver Birch Metallic/Black leather
WeatherTech floormats all rows
Bought used on 17 Nov 10 with 20,000 miles

dmg
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Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Just in case anyone is still interested in this topic. I did cave into the blandishments of the dealership and replaced the upper control arm in an attempt to fix the out-of-spec camber on my right rear wheel. Bad idea and a total waste of a lot of money. It did not fix the issue at all.

BTW, this was the solution recommended by other garages as well. I always try to get a second opinion when some place recommends an expensive solution. I don't go to the dealership any more. (Or another other garage that said I also needed to replace outer and inner tie rods along with ball joints - total frauds: the boots on the inner tie rods are sweating a little bit, but other than this it is all good.)

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is a camber adjustment bushing made by MOOG (part number: K100087). None of the garages I went to for advice told me about this relatively inexpensive solution. Nor did they claim to know about this solution when I asked about it. Does anyone in the forum have any experience installing this part?

spy1309
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by spy1309 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:52 am

There was a Ford buletin involving this issue, the repair supposed to increase the size of a botl hole can t remember specifically .....go to a dealerand ask them to print it for you.

rtg143
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Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by rtg143 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:56 am

Here's the bulletin.
Attachments
Camber.pdf
(94.38 KiB) Downloaded 58 times
Bert
2008 Taurus X Limited
2002 F150 XLT

dmg
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:22 am

Thanks very much for this. I should take this TSB to the dealership and complain about the previous and unnecessary work they performed to replace the upper control arm. The date on the TSB indicates that there was a known issue and fix for negative camber on my vehicle when the dealership recommended replacing the upper control arm.

spy1309
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:51 pm

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by spy1309 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:31 am

Dealer will go for the most profitable solution for them....if they give you a hard time call ford customer satisfaction line and lodge a complain against dealership....they will call them and sort it for you.

dmg
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Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:35 am
Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada

Re: Camber can't be adjusted to within spec

Post by dmg » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:13 am

Thanks. I have taken the TSB to the dealer. The dealership points out that the TSB is a for the front-wheel drive version of the Taurus X and other listed vehicles. I have an AWD Taurus X. The lower control arm where you have to widen the bolt hole looks the same. However, the part numbers are different, according to the Ford OEM parts web site at https://www.oemfordpart.com/auto-parts/ ... nsion-scat.

I am aware that there are some significant differences between the FWD and AWD rear suspensions. However, the lower control arms (where you have to make the adjustments according to the TSB) in both vehicles perform the same function. So, I am not sure why the fix for the FWD would not work for the AWD vehicle as well.

I notice that MOOG K100087 camber kit for this vehicle also makes no distinction between an FWD and an AWD for applicability. As far as I can tell, the Installation of this kit also requires removing the welded nut for the lower arm-to-wheel knuckle and possibly enlarging the bolt hole (the same procedure outlined by the TSB). This said, the instructions that accompany this kit are terrible. You can view the kit here: http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-de ... US X&vin=#.

I am still pursuing the issue with the dealership. So far, the dealership seems open to trying to help get this sorted out to my satisfaction. The TSB that rtg143 very helpfully provided has provided sufficient cause for the dealership to take the issue seriously.

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