Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:40 am

My stepson has been driving around all this time in the 2007 FS I did last May with the TC/ABS lights on, so my hope is this weekend I can put the 3 boxes from the 2007 Montego into his car and then use the 2006 TCM he has on mine and make all our lights go out. We will see.
So this weekend my stepson *finally* brought his FS (the one with my 1st swap in May 2017) to the shop so I could swap out the ECU & ABS module. I had previously swapped out the trans module so I could have his for my DD. Anyway, after he's been driving around for 9 months with ABS and TC lights on, I swapped the 2 modules, tied the Montego key to his PATS antenna with a tie-wrap, and voila! no more warning lights. I now have 2 Freestyles in the family with 6-speeds in them and no warning lights on in either one.
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Splicer
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by Splicer » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:17 am

Nice job! Too involved for me but I am impressed!
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KevinVarnes
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by KevinVarnes » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:30 pm

One of my regulars that I work on cars for has an '05 FS AWD with the helicopter CVT transmission. I am contemplating installing an Aisin 6 speed transmission for him as outlined in this thread (great contributions from those that have pioneered this swap BTW). I had a couple of questions as I figure out what we will need as I haven't had a chance to take a close look at the car.

What is everybody doing with the front transfer case? It looks like it attaches directly to the CVT. If you remove the transfer case are you then just removing the driveshaft that goes to the rear differential completely?

Should I get the trans cooler lines from the 6 speed car or can I reuse the CVT cooler lines (after they have been flushed of course)?

It looks like the starter on the 6 speed is more toward the firewall, whereas the CVT starter is more toward the front of the car (hard to tell from online pictures). I haven't seen anyone mention any issues with this so can I assume there are none?

I've read about the compatibility issues with the '07 MY cars and the '05-'06 cars. Does this mean I should limit my transmission search to '05-'06 only or would the TCM from an '07 transmission play nice with the '05 ECU? I'll probably just run the FS ECU for now unless I find a '05-'06 500/Montego in the junkyard to liberate the ECU and ABS control module from.

Thank you for any help and advice.

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am

What is everybody doing with the front transfer case? It looks like it attaches directly to the CVT. If you remove the transfer case are you then just removing the driveshaft that goes to the rear differential completely?
If you put in the 6-speed, it will eliminate the AWD on your FS and make it FWD. You will need to remove all the AWD components forward of the rear axle.
Should I get the trans cooler lines from the 6 speed car or can I reuse the CVT cooler lines (after they have been flushed of course)?
I've done 2 of these and in both cases I just blew the old fluid out of the CVT cooler and used it. Use the lines from the 6-speed, the CVT lines are not compatible.
It looks like the starter on the 6 speed is more toward the firewall, whereas the CVT starter is more toward the front of the car (hard to tell from online pictures). I haven't seen anyone mention any issues with this so can I assume there are none?
The starter does move to a different position, so you have to kind of reconfigure the wiring a bit, but it's not hard. Also, if you have rear air, there is a pump that attaches to the front of the CVT to send hot water to the rear unit. You will have to fashion a bracket to attach it to the 6-speed as there is not 500 or Montego with rear air, so the attach points are not there.
Does this mean I should limit my transmission search to '05-'06 only or would the TCM from an '07 transmission play nice with the '05 ECU?
It will work but you will have warning lights on the dash for ABS and TCS. The ECU, TCM and ABS module must all agree on VIN. The year model of the trans itself is irrelevant. My 2006 is using a 2007 trans and my stepson's 2007 is using a 2005 trans. However the modules mentioned must be from the correct year. So, if you have not sourced a parts car for this swap, it will be a lot easier if you get a 2005-06 for your swap so you don't have to flash anything.
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KevinVarnes
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by KevinVarnes » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:58 am

jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
If you put in the 6-speed, it will eliminate the AWD on your FS and make it FWD. You will need to remove all the AWD components forward of the rear axle.
Got it. I already told him he would be losing AWD which was more of a joke since the rear diff has not functioned properly in a couple of years.
jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
I've done 2 of these and in both cases I just blew the old fluid out of the CVT cooler and used it. Use the lines from the 6-speed, the CVT lines are not compatible.
Noted. I will source new cooling lines. I was just going to flush out the trans cooler. Looks like a pain to remove/replace anyway.
jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
The starter does move to a different position, so you have to kind of reconfigure the wiring a bit, but it's not hard. Also, if you have rear air, there is a pump that attaches to the front of the CVT to send hot water to the rear unit. You will have to fashion a bracket to attach it to the 6-speed as there is not 500 or Montego with rear air, so the attach points are not there.
Got it. Luckily the car does not have the auxiliary HVAC system so one less thing to worry about.
jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
It will work but you will have warning lights on the dash for ABS and TCS.
The TC light is already on as it stands anyway so I might just get it running initially with the FS ECU and live with the addition of the ABS light.
jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
The ECU, TCM and ABS module must all agree on VIN.
This is just so you do not have the TC and ABS lights though correct? Otherwise people wouldn't be able to run the 6 speed trans with the FS ECU right?
jas88 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:38 am
The year model of the trans itself is irrelevant. My 2006 is using a 2007 trans and my stepson's 2007 is using a 2005 trans. However the modules mentioned must be from the correct year. So, if you have not sourced a parts car for this swap, it will be a lot easier if you get a 2005-06 for your swap so you don't have to flash anything.
Right, but if I get a 2007 trans (and presumably a 2007 TCM that comes with it) would it still function properly with the '05 FS ECU or would I have to swap a '05-'06 TCM onto the trans (again just to get it running and not worrying about warning lights right now)? It sounds like in some of the other swaps the issue was trying to run a '05-'06 vehicle with an '07 ECU or vice versa and that did not work.

I appreciate your response, help, and advice on this. It is very helpful.

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:09 am

This is just so you do not have the TC and ABS lights though correct? Otherwise people wouldn't be able to run the 6 speed trans with the FS ECU right?
Yes, correct, the trans will work fine with the FS ECU, but your TCS and ABS will be inop. My stepson drove around like this for over a year before I could get a matching set of modules for his 2007.

If you've read this thread carefully, then you know you also need the shifter and shift cable from the donor car. I recommend buying a whole car from Copart (that's what I did both times) or something similar so you will have everything you need. If you can get one with significantly lower miles than the existing car, you could do a complete powertrain swap by dropping the subframe and save some time and hassle of pulling out the trans separately. This would also allow you to use the donor car wiring harnesses so you would avoid the wiring mods needed with the 6-speed.
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KevinVarnes
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by KevinVarnes » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:50 am

Yes, I have a running list of parts I will need and the shifter and cable are on there.

A complete parts car to work from would be great, but honestly if it weren't for this potential trans swap the car would probably be headed to the junkyard. It has 216k miles on it and serves as his 3rd or 4th vehicle so completely replacing the car is on the table. I hate to see an otherwise good car (engine runs great and burns no oil and structurally underneath is still solid) go to the junkyard so I did some research and found this thread. Hopefully we can save it and get a few more years service out of it, but it will have to be done on a tight budget.

mr220v
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by mr220v » Sun May 06, 2018 7:34 pm

How many miles do you all have on your 6 speed swaps?

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Mon May 07, 2018 5:22 am

I've only got about 5000 on mine. My stepson has about 15K on the one I did for him.
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mr220v
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by mr220v » Mon May 07, 2018 6:03 pm

Thats about what i have on mine.

I have this issue where i kept eating passenger side axles. Basically the spline on the differential is gone. Anybody else have this issue? I wouldn't think that a few hundred extra pounds would do this.

What is the spline count on the cvt passenger side axle?

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Tue May 08, 2018 5:14 am

Have not seen this on either of mine. You did use the 500 axles, right?
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mr220v
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by mr220v » Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 am

Yes. Pretty sure the cvt axles cant fit.

On mine, i noticed the ps axle just slid right in, whereas the ds axle had to be pressed hard.

Maybe that was an indicator something was wrong wth the splines on the differential.

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Tue May 08, 2018 6:33 am

On mine, i noticed the ps axle just slid right in, whereas the ds axle had to be pressed hard.
That is normal. The right side axle is held in by an external retainer with 2 nuts. The left side has a clip that holds it in internally.
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mr220v
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by mr220v » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:52 pm

Well, grabbed a whole new drivetrain. Found a motor and trans with 50k for 900. Got the axles too, so i hopefully avoid whatever the original issue was.

I cant imagine that a weight difference the equivalent of a fat man would cause those splines to shear.

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jas88
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Re: Swap 500 6 sp into Freestyle possible.

Post by jas88 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:46 am

I hope you got the modules that go with it otherwise you will have warning lights on.
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