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Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

baker man
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Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by baker man » Mon May 20, 2013 7:25 pm

Hello everyone,this is my problem 05 ford freestyle limited awd cvt 96000mi. the car has been great I did the tranny service at 68000mi Both filters and motorcraft cvt fluid.was ready to take it on a 2500mi. trip until my wife called up on her way home from work and said the check transmission display came up and also a wrench.It happened as she was pulling up to a red light she was slowing down the light turned green she proceeded to go and thats when the wrench and check trans popped up.She said it was like the tranny was slipping 4 to 5 thousand rpms only about 40mph she quickly pulled over shut the car off restarted it no wrench or check tranny .car worked perfect she came home no problems would never know there was a problem.I plugged in the trouble shooter po961,po871,po701.I stoped by the dealer to see what they could tell me, they said sell it get rid of it.told me we cant diagnose for you its going to need a new trans $6000.Also forgot to mention before she shut the car down when the wrench light was on moving the shifter to reverse and to drive there was some banging.but after it was shut down and restarted all was smooth.If anyone has any ideas for me or had simliar problems would appreciate some feedback.Thanks

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Tue May 21, 2013 12:57 am

first, sorry to read about your experience.....so many of us have suffered this fate.

the really bizarre thing about this Trans is that when it wants to "go" (kaput), it "goes" without any warning, regardless of how well it was maintained/used.

the next stage in this issue you reported would be the depressing Helicopter noise.

some more info:

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/v ... f=1&t=4034

http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5w0hn-fo ... codes.html
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

knowitall
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by knowitall » Tue May 21, 2013 4:35 am

Africa_FS_07 wrote:first, sorry to read about your experience.....so many of us have suffered this fate.
:shock: WRONG! :shock:
the really bizarre thing about this Trans is that when it wants to "go" (kaput), it "goes" without any warning, regardless of how well it was maintained/used.
:shock: WRONG! :shock:
the next stage in this issue you reported would be the depressing Helicopter noise.

some more info:

http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/v ... f=1&t=4034

http://www.justanswer.com/ford/5w0hn-fo ... codes.html
Statistically the Freestyle transmission is a good one. :P

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Tue May 21, 2013 4:54 am

unverified statistics which have never been DETAILED anywhere?

please show us the full summary of the "statistics"...
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

knowitall
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by knowitall » Tue May 21, 2013 8:04 am

Africa_FS_07 wrote:unverified statistics which have never been DETAILED anywhere?

please show us the full summary of the "statistics"...
Believe and you shall understand. Don't be a doubting Thomas. :lol:

mike9476
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by mike9476 » Tue May 21, 2013 9:04 am

Look at this post for more help: http://www.myfordfreestyle.com/forums/v ... f=1&t=4034

It is likely the mechatronics (valve body) or an electrical issue. It is not likely that your whole CVT has failed. Find another dealer, or an independant shop that is willing to actually look into the issue. You probably do NOT need a new trans.

I would get this repaired ASAP though because over time the bad mechatronics can damage the internals of the CVT.
2011 Chrysler Town and Country Touring
Wife's car: 2013 Honda Odyssey EX-L
Sold: 2007 Freestyle Limited

bliss_junkie
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by bliss_junkie » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:44 pm

My 06' SEL FWD just threw the same codes. P0701(Trans Control System), P0871(Trans Fluid Pressure Sensor/Switch C), and P0961(Pressure Control Solenoid A)

The light comes on 10 secs or so after start up and stay on until the car is shut off. Currently, it is a cold Michigan winter with temps hovering around 0. If I restart the car after a few mins when it has warmed up, the light is gone. If I restart it before that, there is usually still a light.
This has happened the last 3 times I've driven it in these temps. On the second of the three excursions, I also tripped the 'engine' light as opposed to just the 'wrench'. The wrench went away after vehicle had warmed up, the engine light however did not.

I chose to leave the wrench active for a 3 mile drive (limp mode: 25mph at 3k RPM) to my Ford dealer the next day, who found the trans codes, but saw no history of engine codes.
After the 3 miles diagnostics read:

P0701(Trans Control System) was Status 60: DTC present at time of request.
P0871(Trans Fluid Pressure Sensor/Switch C) Status 60: DTC present at time of request.
P0961(Pressure Control Solenoid A) Status 20: Previous set DTC NOT present at time of request.

I'm curious if temperature might be having some effect on the viscosity of the CVT fluid in a way that causes one sensor to trip the others. Does that seem far fetched or does anyone have any other thoughts? Seeing a trans guy on next available business day anyway, so if not, no worries.

More than anything I posted this to contribute documentation to help others who may be able to use it to link cause and effect. That said, insight is still appreciated.

Current Mileage 158k
Both filters and new Motor Craft CVT fluid at 132k
Owned Since 53k
Had Throttle Body warranty work performed
No other major problems
No rear brake issues


This is hands down the best forum I have EVER read on the entire web concerning fixing/trouble shooting. I've never had to post before because someone has always already documented being down that road. So thank you, thank you, thank you, to all of the long term members of the page and frequent commenters. I'm always worried with how much information has already been covered on MFF.com that the number of new query's/commenters will just fade away, but it hasn't. I very much appreciate the continued engagement of the veteran members of the page, and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that.

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:46 pm

bliss_junkie wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:44 pm
My 06' SEL FWD just threw the same codes. P0701(Trans Control System), P0871(Trans Fluid Pressure Sensor/Switch C), and P0961(Pressure Control Solenoid A)

P0701(Trans Control System) was Status 60: DTC present at time of request.
P0871(Trans Fluid Pressure Sensor/Switch C) Status 60: DTC present at time of request.
P0961(Pressure Control Solenoid A) Status 20: Previous set DTC NOT present at time of request.
see this thread too for some insight: viewtopic.php?t=8162

Well, with the passage of time, i found out (thanks to Mike Poland) that these type of codes and issues described in this thread were due to a faulty Mechatronics unit (valve body). There is a filter in/on each of its five (5) Solenoids which get clogged overtime with metal debris from the wear and tear of the Trans, just like any other trans.

Most simply swap it out with a new or used unit (the mechatronics).....But Mike did show us that it was repairable, with a cleaning job which required taking it apart and removing the filters inside the solenoids on the Mechatronics, cleaning the filters free of the debris and re-assembling them.

I think Mike or another member (can't remember clearly) also posted the place where Solenoid replacement filters could be bought from.

I did same cleaning thing with the filters inside the Solenoids of the Mechatronic from my old kaputed CVT after i had swapped out the whole CVT (Mike's info wasn't available back then), kept the Solenoids as a spare and passed it on to another owner later on.

Unfortunately, Mike's pictures are no longer showing on here because he's no longer a member.

The Mechatronic removal and replacement does NOT required the Trans being dropped at all. search for a PDF repair manual regarding it on here.

the tricky thing with taking apart the Mechatronics though is that you need to be very careful with the TCM's very light and fragile electronics film attached to its Electric socket in there that you will take off, careful not to scratch it....and also try not to bend and lose the few springs that you will also see inside it.

a new Mechatronics is about $400 -$1000 from what i read, and used between $100 - $300.
Last edited by Africa_FS_07 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

xvert
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by xvert » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:39 pm

Unfortunately, Mike's pictures are no longer showing on here because he's no longer a member.
I once saved Mike's theme to read off-line ( files , the "repairing" folder), but I can not check it now because of the vary slow internet. It would be good if the moderator restored this great topic.

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:40 pm

xvert wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:39 pm
Unfortunately, Mike's pictures are no longer showing on here because he's no longer a member.
I once saved Mike's theme to read off-line ( files , the "repairing" folder), but I can not check it now because of the vary slow internet. It would be good if the moderator restored this great topic.
Ah mr xvert, agromnaye spaseeba !

you and mike poland are angels !

the work you and mike have done on here is so priceless, how great it would be to have those priceless pictures from Mike back on these threads, glorious be the day they show up again !

once again, balshoye spaseeba, agromnaye spaseeba !
Last edited by Africa_FS_07 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:29 am

Africa_FS_07 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:46 pm
.....There is a filter in/on each of its five (5) Solenoids which get clogged overtime with metal debris from the wear and tear of the Trans, just like any other Trans......
with Many thanks to mr Xvert, i found one of the old pictures from the Mechatronics Solenoid "How to Clean" in his files.

You can see some of the metal debris in the Solenoid filter in the enlarged picture (picture is upside down, i couldn't get it to flip the right way). These one way or the other probably escaped the High Pressure filter which is supposed to trap them.

Those cloggings have been known to be one of the chief demons restricting good fluid pressure in the Mechatronics, with a concomitant effect on the CVT operations.

Image
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

xvert
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by xvert » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:27 am

Africa_FS_07 wrote: ..once again, balshoye spaseeba, agromnaye spaseeba !..
Many thanks, Africa_FS_07.. I'm shocked.. Now I know how my attempts to speak English look like. Excuse me!!! " :D

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Africa_FS_07
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by Africa_FS_07 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:47 pm

xvert wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:27 am
Africa_FS_07 wrote: ..once again, balshoye spaseeba, agromnaye spaseeba !..
Many thanks, Africa_FS_07.. I'm shocked.. Now I know how my attempts to speak English look like. Excuse me!!! " :D
Aarg :oops: , my apologies, mr Xvert! , I guess I overshot the runway :shock: !

Oh drats, now the mischievous voodoo poet will have me for supper! :oops:
i wonder who "Voodoo Bob of the Dead Poets Society" is hounding now.....:mrgreen:

bliss_junkie
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by bliss_junkie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:25 pm

So it's been several weeks and I know no more than I did before. I had hoped to thank you for your replies and make an update via the same post, but alas I have nothing. So far I have only found dealerships that tell me it's time to move on while not addressing my wishes to diagnose and fix the problem.

Thanks for the reply and archival digging, Mr Africa, and your pictures and contributions Mr Xvert! I can't tell you how many things I've read on this forum that were posted by Mr Africa that helped me before needing to write in, or how excited I was that it was you who gave me my first reply! Thanks for sticking around the forum, good sir!

So, in my current situation, it sounds like my base entry for my current predicament is to address the problem myself (as soon as possible) by dropping the filters/fluid and replacing pan and high pressure filters while dropping the mechatronics unit and cleaning the screens to the tune of about 200-250 in parts and fluids.

SO! My questions are:
If I do that, is there any way to know if the mech unit needs replacing or just cleaning? From the reading I've done since posting, it seems the failures with the mech unit are isolated and the unit itself can be overhauled just as easily as it can be taken apart and cleaned. Does that seem accurate or no?

Also, should I take out the mech and find particulates blocking the solenoid filters + some particulate at the pan/high pressure filters, what amount should be concerning of replacing the trans/vehicle VS addressing just the mech unit? As you said, clearly that metal came from somewhere.

Is there anything that could go substantially wrong when dropping that Mech unit besides damaging the ribbon?

I love my Freestyle. I'd like to keep my Freestyle. However, if this mechatronics issue precludes a helicopter a year from now for another couple thousand dollars, it's making me nervous about the money pit it could become. I feel like lots of these same issues people have dealt with previously on the forum made more sense at the times because the vehicles weren't approaching 15 years old at the time. All that considering and realizing there is seemingly no good local help, does it make financial sense to dig into this only to potentially deal with an o-ring in a year or two or should I just move on? Reminder: It only has 154,xxx and has run well in every other way. I'm worried that if I'm nervous about undergoing these repairs that I might not be up for the O-ring and if I can't get good help to diagnose this issue in my area that I'm also going to be hard pressed to find someone who can deal with the O-ring when that comes up.

Thanks again for your replies. I'm sorry I became more focused on reading more in depth into my problems before I shared my gratitude. I really hoped to have an update to share as well :-/

bliss_junkie
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Re: Cvt issues and throwing codes,can anyone help???

Post by bliss_junkie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:15 pm

Those files are amazing by the way. I can't believe how much info was on the brink of being lost! I particularly found pages 40-41 of the Student Guide interesting in regards to the cold weather issue. Recognizing that these solenoids play a part in setting a cold weather circuit meant to pump fluids faster gives me some bit of solace.

That being said, I also can't seem to find drawings for what needs to be taken apart to get those 5 solenoids loose...Can those be taken out without fully pulling the mechatroinics unit? Did you happen to come across a break down for how to disassemble that? Page 14 of the same pdf mentions that it has to be serviced as a whole unit. There was also something similar mentioned in one of the other pdf's (though I can't find it now to document it)

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