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Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

PhotoMaster
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Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by PhotoMaster » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:04 pm

As many of you know, the Freestyle, the Taurus X, and the Ford 500 have been having repeated surge/lunge issues that all have been getting treated with replacing or cleaning the throttle body, for a huge chunk of change. I recently found out from the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) that as of October 2011, Ford found that the problem is not actually the throttle body, but a programming error in the computer that makes the throttle malfunction at numerous times, but most noticeably when the engine is under load (ie. turning corners, running A/C or carrying a heavy load. (See Ford repair bulletin #11-10-21 [released on October 19,2011])) Please note that this is how the vehicles were delivered, and not the result of anything any user has or has not done to the vehicle.

The lunges/surges have resulted in several accidents and at least one known injury. Since the article appeared (https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/dai ... g-problems) I have dealt with the NTHSA (case# 10468869) and Ford (case# 1670332142) regarding this issue as I had a minor accident and several near misses, including nearly running people over in a parking lot.

I urge anyone who is experiencing this problem to contact Ford Corporate, as the dealerships have no authority, and to contact the NHTSA, and file complaints. On the facebook page (that someone else unknown to me created) there is a lot of discussion on the issue as well.

To the people that have had no problems with this (a few people have mentioned this) I can only say "Congratulations". To everyone else I say "please be careful". Your saftey, the safety (and lives) of your family and the safety of others on the road is at stake. I have resorted to putting my car in neutral at every stop light and in parking lots, for the benefit of everyone involved.

I have been a die hard Ford person, to the point of some very insane/stupid arguments and have had at least 14 Fords in my lifetime (yes I'm older) and will not be a Ford person any longer if Ford doesn't fix the issue. By releasing the afore mentioned bulletin, they have acknowledged that the problem is their error. I also have quite a few recorded phone conversations with Ford and the NHTSA to verify every detail of what I have posted here. It's just that every person effected by this issue needs to call on their own behalf, so that we can get a recall issued. By the way, the NHTSA is the group you want to call, as they issue the recalls, not Ford. Ford refuses any voluntary recalls, as is also documented in audio recordings.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I love the vehicle (except for the throttle issue) and I want everyone to be safe.

Greg

InCoGnIt0
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by InCoGnIt0 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:38 pm

Thanks for the post PhotoMaster/Greg
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FordTaurus
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:24 pm

Greg, are you sure the problem is not actually the throttle body?

Ford repair bulletin #11-10-21 is to clean the throttle body then reflash with software.
Anymore information you can provide?

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by knowitall » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:39 am

Since I've been cleaning the throttle body at each oil change I have not had a problem with the surging.

I'm wondering if reflashing the software or rebooting the ECM by disconnecting the negative battery cable achieves the same result?

Also I added more ground wires which may or may not have helped but its inexpensive. Do a search on "Big 3 upgrade".

PhotoMaster
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by PhotoMaster » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:10 pm

Reprogramming the computer is necessary as the throttle body malfunction is caused by the computer under heavy load. I suspect that the malfunction is fouling the throttle body which is why the throttle body needs to be cleaned so often. In any case there have been many accidents from the problem, including at least one minor injury. We're trying to get a recall pushed through before the injuries turn into deaths.

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by Huachipato » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:28 pm

Did I somehow fail to see the solution to this problem in this thread? It looks like you have identified the root cause more than provide a solution.
'04 Cobra
'07 Freestyle LTD AWD - 102.5K Miles

PhotoMaster
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by PhotoMaster » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:25 am

The solution to the repair is reprogramming and cleaning. The real solution would be Ford making a recall, which they refuse to do. I've already contacted numerous news services and am waiting to hear back. We need to get them involved before Ford will do anything. That, or if someone dies in the mean time.

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:04 pm

The question is to recall to do what?
For example, mine does not have any problem!

The malfunction were caused by dirty throttle body and MAS.

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:07 pm

You seems to be suspecting something, but not understanding the real issue.

PhotoMaster
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by PhotoMaster » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:14 pm

The dirty throttle body is caused by the programming error. It's causing the computer to use more gas (worse mpg) and foul the throttle body. Also just because a vehicle doesn't have the surge problem, it can start in any of these vehicles at any time. I don't want my family driving in a missile on wheels.

Oh yes, I got a call back from abc tv that they're going to investigate the issue too! This could be a positive development!

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:05 pm

The dirty throttle body was caused by dirt.
A newly cleaned throttle body (or replaced throttle body) need to plug into the computer so the throttle body know how to behave. (Or many just disconnect the battery, connect again, back to normal)
The programming is the same as the programming when the vehicle was new. Even if not re program, the information was already in the on board computer.

According to the out source infor, the surge could be stop with the brake within 10 feet and less than 5 mph. (or, I forgot, 5 feet and less than 10 mph) So, no missile what so ever.

Stop imagining problems, when the problem was investigated and resolution found.

PhotoMaster
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by PhotoMaster » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:38 pm

That is why there is an ongoing class action suit in California? And Ford says you're incorrect? And the NHTSA also says you're incorrect???

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:46 pm

The dirty throttle body was caused by dirt.

Jack Watts
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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by Jack Watts » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:57 pm

I think you're misunderstanding the problem a bit. ALL throttle bodies get dirty, almost all of which is from combustion byproducts. Going too long between oil changes and a clogged PCV system can make things worse, but it's unavoidable. A PCM update isn't going to change this fact. What it will potentially do is change how the engine management deals with a throttle plate that is binding.

Something else to keep in mind is that the throttle position sensor is a contact film-type sensor. If the sensor wiper arms wear spots into the film (which is more likely to happen if the plate has been binding), there is no amount of throttle cleaning or PCM updating that's going to fix that....you'll have to replace the throttle body.

Give this a read and it should give you some insight into what is actually going on. It's a Volvo TB but the design is basically the same. The resistor film on the Freestyle is a little thicker, but it's still going to wear out over time. You can reduce the wear by keeping the TB clean, which reduces movement of the wiper arms at idle. I'm at 130K and I've had no problems--but I also know that eventually it's going to wear out:
http://www.justanswer.com/volvo/3acnz-v ... codes.html

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Re: Throttle Body/Transmission issue solved!

Post by FordTaurus » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 pm

Thanks for the detailed explanations!

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